OED “siphon” definition wrong for decades
If you want to find a definition, the Oxford English Dictionary is the most copied cited work, so it's no surprise to hear many, many dictionaries have the definition of "siphon" incorrect. Just like the OED did.
http://www.kidglue.com/2010/05/12/oxford-dictionary-has-been-mis-defining-siphon-for-99-years/
For the inexperienced, I recommend trying to siphon gas from your car for your lawnmower. This is how I discovered the amazing taste of gasoline, not to mention its effect on my digestive tract. Not pretty.
I think these people are being picky -- just because editors thought atmospheric pressure was how siphoning worked (instead of gravity) -- you really to have to change the atmospheric pressure on the end of the tube to get it to start.
Let the arguments begin.
http://www.kidglue.com/2010/05/12/oxford-dictionary-has-been-mis-defining-siphon-for-99-years/
For the inexperienced, I recommend trying to siphon gas from your car for your lawnmower. This is how I discovered the amazing taste of gasoline, not to mention its effect on my digestive tract. Not pretty.
I think these people are being picky -- just because editors thought atmospheric pressure was how siphoning worked (instead of gravity) -- you really to have to change the atmospheric pressure on the end of the tube to get it to start.
Let the arguments begin.
Comments
thanks dumbfounded, i feel smart today. well, i'm off to work, orientating at a new job. thanks for the upper sweetie.
Posted by Patty in Ohio, USA on 05/14/10 at 09:59 AM
Well it's oil (floats on water) and it's under pressure anyway so that'll make a big difference.
But let's say you're trying to siphon water from the bottom of a deep lake. It doesn't matter how deep the end of the siphon goes, since the greater distance you have to raise the water is exactly balanced by a greater distance of water above you pushing down, the only limit is how far above the surface of the lake you want to raise it, which can't be more than 34'.
Oil, under pressure from a large depth of (denser) water will probably be able to beat that height with ease. For every 34 feet extra you go down, you should expect an extra 2-3 feet or so of "lift" at the surface.
But let's say you're trying to siphon water from the bottom of a deep lake. It doesn't matter how deep the end of the siphon goes, since the greater distance you have to raise the water is exactly balanced by a greater distance of water above you pushing down, the only limit is how far above the surface of the lake you want to raise it, which can't be more than 34'.
Oil, under pressure from a large depth of (denser) water will probably be able to beat that height with ease. For every 34 feet extra you go down, you should expect an extra 2-3 feet or so of "lift" at the surface.
Posted by Dumbfounded on 05/14/10 at 10:11 AM
"Diff me baby one more time!"
You're right martel, it does! :lol:
You're right martel, it does! :lol:
Posted by Dumbfounded on 05/14/10 at 10:13 AM
Siphon-Smiphon! It's all magic anyhow and the junk science y'all have been aspoutin' is just to confuse us ignorant peons.
Posted by Expat47 in Athens, Greece on 05/14/10 at 10:53 AM
I'm with Expat. Come, fellow peons, let us mosey to the pub and have a few drinks to quench our ignorance!
Posted by Nethie on 05/14/10 at 11:25 AM
brian the point being made with the remark:
"No Brian's argument is "I am right because I say I am", bare assertion and appeals to (one's own) authority are not a convincing case."
is that if you argue a fact here (as opposed to opinions which are an entirely different matter) you are expected to back the argument with varifiable facts not just your level of education. because lets face it anyone can say anything, true or not. but if i say look here, and give a sorce then that can be proved true. otherwise your argument is no better than an opinion. as a scientist this should not be an alien idea to you.
dumbfounded, you know i'll diff ya any time any place baby!
"No Brian's argument is "I am right because I say I am", bare assertion and appeals to (one's own) authority are not a convincing case."
is that if you argue a fact here (as opposed to opinions which are an entirely different matter) you are expected to back the argument with varifiable facts not just your level of education. because lets face it anyone can say anything, true or not. but if i say look here, and give a sorce then that can be proved true. otherwise your argument is no better than an opinion. as a scientist this should not be an alien idea to you.
dumbfounded, you know i'll diff ya any time any place baby!
Posted by Patty in Ohio, USA on 05/14/10 at 07:33 PM
One more try... 😕
Here we have an apparatus consisting of a tube consisting of two vertical sections connected at different heights by a third horizontal one that incorporates a valve. This we fill with liquid then invert into two bowls of liquid that are set at different heights.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s308/CrustyBear/Siphon-7.jpg
With the valve closed (A|B) what we have are two barometers, each supporting a column of liquid above the surface of the bowls to a height determined by atmospheric pressure. Clearly, with more liquid pushing against it because of gravity, the pressure on the A side of the valve is higher than that on the B side. Now we open the valve.
With the valve open (A-B) what we have is a siphon. The liquid will flow from the higher to lower pressure, from A to B.
As an exercise to the reader, what happens at the mouth of the vertical tube A when the level of mercury above it begins to drop and why?
Here we have an apparatus consisting of a tube consisting of two vertical sections connected at different heights by a third horizontal one that incorporates a valve. This we fill with liquid then invert into two bowls of liquid that are set at different heights.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s308/CrustyBear/Siphon-7.jpg
With the valve closed (A|B) what we have are two barometers, each supporting a column of liquid above the surface of the bowls to a height determined by atmospheric pressure. Clearly, with more liquid pushing against it because of gravity, the pressure on the A side of the valve is higher than that on the B side. Now we open the valve.
With the valve open (A-B) what we have is a siphon. The liquid will flow from the higher to lower pressure, from A to B.
As an exercise to the reader, what happens at the mouth of the vertical tube A when the level of mercury above it begins to drop and why?
Posted by Dumbfounded on 05/14/10 at 08:21 PM
thanks brian. can someone explain the difference between gauge pressure and atmospheric pressure as relates to brian's link. i'm trying to get it together in my head. i'm just a high school graduate, but i'm reasonably intellegent and i'd like to understand the difference in the 2 sides of this debate.
Posted by Patty in Ohio, USA on 05/14/10 at 09:20 PM
just what we needed pablo, thanks. :lol:
Posted by Patty in Ohio, USA on 05/17/10 at 07:26 AM
After reading Brian's last posts I feel I was very uncharitable in my remarks about bare assertion, etc., which I withdraw (and have struck through in my earlier posts). I should understand better than anyone that people can be too busy to bother with frivolous arguments and thank him for taking the time to research and post an proper case.
(He's still wrong though. 😊 )
(He's still wrong though. 😊 )
Posted by Dumbfounded on 05/18/10 at 10:48 AM
you have 2? 🐛
Posted by Patty in Ohio, USA on 05/18/10 at 10:53 PM
Commenting is not available in this channel entry.
Category: Science